Mastering Coupons: Your Brand’s Secret Weapon with Brook Schaaf

[00:00:05] Jake Fuller: Okay. Welcome back to the Profitable Performance Marketing Podcast. I am your host, Jake Fuller, the CEO here at JEB Commerce. Our topic this week is one that has never gone away and I feel is talked about quite often. And this topic revolves around the usage of coupon and deal sites, how consumer utilize these affiliates, how these affiliates fit into your program.

[00:00:35] And most importantly, what kind of tools are out there to help facilitate and aggregate your brands, promotions, your deals, your discounts out to your partners in an effective manner. So our guest today who better on this topic than the co founder of FMTC? You want to introduce yourself?

[00:00:51] Welcome to the show, Brook.

[00:00:53] Brook Schaaf: Great. Thank you, Jake. My name is Brook Schaaf. I’ve been in the affiliate space since the year 2000. I got to start at a very young Zappos. com and made my way through a few different, um, places and along the way started FMTC, which is a deal and now product distribution company. We power enterprise coupon and reward sites.

[00:01:14] We also work with some of the conference content guys out there. So pleased to be here.

[00:01:19] Jake: Thanks for joining. So from an agency perspective, obviously we talked to a lot of prospective brands, we have a lot of brands that we represent and have over the two decades that JEBCommerce has actively been an OPM and agency. And one topic that is sure to come up on every client call is how coupons are used.

[00:01:37] And typically speaking, there’s a negative connotation these days between the use of coupon sites, deal sites, and how they fit into a affiliate program. What I personally find a lot of the times is that a lot of it comes down to a misunderstanding or maybe a lack of education about how to properly use some of these partners.

[00:01:58] So just open out questions from a general standpoint, how do you feel? Brands look at coupon or deal sites, and is there a distinguishable difference between the two? Cause those terms get used a lot, almost in unison.

[00:02:11] Brook: It’s funny you ask because I was actually on a PMA podcast a couple of weeks ago when the distinction between the deal and the coupon and the reward sites was drawn out. And it is in fairness, a reasonable one to make, in, in brief, a deal site is typically highlighted something that does not require a coupon code.

[00:02:27] It’s usually associated with a product is often here today gone tomorrow. It’s flash stuff and really good examples of properties like that. I should like. Slickdeals or Demand.io, they put stuff out there it’s largely community sourced but that also compliments the actual coupon code quite well.

[00:02:45] So that the two really do tend to blur together. I think if there’s a distinction to be made, it might really be with the user community, where sometimes you can just be looking for the one or for the other. So some sites post one, but not the other. Our deal feed has all the regular sales stuff.

[00:03:01] We also have product discounts that are put into the deal feed, and then the actual product feed of course itself can have discounts. And then the reward component, which is also called cash back is anything where you’re getting the dollars, the points, perhaps a donation to charity that’s tied back to a user or to a team or to a group.

[00:03:18] And that’s the top of the food chain. But it also is an affiliate sacrifice in their margin. Interestingly, some merchants will work with one type and not the other. For example they’ll try to avoid the coupon sites, but they’ll work very actively with the reward sites, but it’s often the other way around. If you look at Amazon, for example, they’re very active on the coupon sites, but the only rewards that you’ll see are with products that are subscription like Amazon Prime.

[00:03:42] It’s pretty simple in concept. When you get much closer there are a lot of little details and it’s like an infinite number of options when you consider that each merchant has their own strategy and their own persona and so forth.

[00:03:53] Jake: Yeah. And I think it’s good to have that distinction and push out that education that you see different value props on how to use those partners in unison to kind of amplify a brand’s efforts to promote a product and how they reach consumers. I think another area of misconception is that consumers, to back up a little bit, some brands we work with don’t realize that some of these partners, as brands themselves, are larger than the brand that we’re actually representing. And so they have this concept that we don’t want someone to just steal credit at the end, we want coupon sites that have some presence and we find a lot of the times, we’re reaching a larger audience than the brand has the capacity to do so by utilizing some of these partners.

[00:04:35] I’m curious if you’ve seen shifts on how consumers use these brands themselves. And by brands, affiliates and coupon sites, deal sites. Do you feel consumers are more active now than they were five years ago? Or do you feel like there’s been any shifts over the years and in your experience and affiliate on how consumers utilize these affiliates and how they look for these deals?

[00:04:54] Brook: I would say it’s actually largely pretty much the same, but to the first point you made, it was, I think it was uh, executive Dot Dash Meredith at a panel I saw last year, he referred to like their properties as brands, which makes sense, they have a lot of legacy magazines. And if you think of the brand is the thing which the consumer seeks out, then it’s not just, the retailer might be the brand, the manufacturer might be the brand.

[00:05:16] And the affiliate might also be the brand, the nomenclature in our space tends to be that it refers to the retailer with the affiliate program. But anybody can be the one in that value chain who has the trust and the relationship. And in that context I think it comes down to a couple of main considerations.

[00:05:34] So first, if you look at the statistics, coupons are and for probably since, they came around the end of, the 19th century and probably from here until the end of time will be very popular. Who doesn’t love a deal? And that’s especially true with higher income earners.

[00:05:49] So if you look at these stats associated with the coupon sites and the reward sites, you typically see higher household income, more frequency of purchase, higher average cart sizes, and so forth. Everything that the merchant is probably looking for with the marketing program. The trick is to understand the sites, understand yourself, and then how you can best engage with the sites.

[00:06:10] And that’s where it sort of, I think, falls into these two kind of big buckets. One is sort of like the brand concern is to not be concerned about being seen typically as a discount brand. And then the other is really like the margin. For the former, all the luxury brand consumers are still looking for markets as well.

[00:06:26] Some coupon sites have launched or are in the process of launching like luxury affiliate sites. So that’s something that we’ve certainly seen. It’s a more sort of specific thing that kind of like goes along with the brand, but I would just say to that: look typically everybody’s on there on these sites, the more natural concern would then be around like the margin.

[00:06:48] And that becomes a very complex picture because the big concern tends to boil down to, the customer would have bought anyway, which may be true, but it also may not be true. And you should look at your analytics to see how far you can look at that and make a determination on it and then really probably experiment a lot because there’s all there for most merchants there’s surely some level of engagement that they could have with these coupon and reward sites that would be very profitable for them, that would bring them new customers and give them everything else that they’re looking for from a marketing channel.

[00:07:17] Jake: Yeah, I really resonate too with the concern that they would have bought anyway. We’ve had this concern with the brands over the years with programs and done some pretty deep dives analytically into case studies and how these brands are helping drive consumers to purchase, and there’s two different buckets we put them in.

[00:07:33] So there are certain partners that do a great job when we look at long term data for some of our brands that help drive returning customers that maybe not have purchased with your brand for six, 12, 18 months, and they’re helping drive that returning loyalty because they’re able to come back and get a discount with a brand they trust, and it’s driving some of that.

[00:07:54] But ironically, a lot of brands will ask us, “Hey, we really want this program to produce A new to file rate.” And for those that don’t understand that term that’s a new consumer purchasing for the first time with that brand for that product, et cetera. And so they want to see that rate at a certain percentage.

[00:08:10] And the irony that I sometimes see is that some of our top rated partners that are driving the highest new to file rates, are some of our discount brands or coupon brands or savings brands and it goes to show when you follow consumer path, they may have discovered you in other manners, they may have been deep into that consideration of purchase, but that extra little carrot Is what helped drove that home for their first purchase, right?

[00:08:32] If they’re someone who doesn’t know your brand, they want to test your product, the discount helps them do that, and it removes some of that barrier of trust as they come in to, to explore that brand and give it a shot for the first time. So we’ve seen that in data over and over again and then communicating that out to brands and how you utilize that data to strategically run that program is a key aspect of breaking through those misnomers in my opinion.

[00:08:57] Brook: Absolutely. Customers respond to incentives. I do, you probably do as well. And everybody listening to this probably does as well. You want to keep in mind too, that when you’re providing these incentives into competitive marketplace, you as a retailer are probably competing with Amazon and the shopper on Amazon probably has Amazon Prime.

[00:09:16] And so if there’s friction and going to you as a retailer without Amazon Prime, possibly with shipping fees and things like that, and slower shipping times that extra little carrot, as you put it can be really crucial, especially if it’s for winning a new customer. And these affiliates individually, how many installs does Honey have, for example, Capital One and the like, but collectively they reach just vast audiences.

[00:09:38] Jake: Yeah, I use my wife as an example. She’s my consumer testing, behavior testing pilots that I run and seeing how she shops. And there are certain brands that she wears for apparel, shoes, et cetera, that she will not buy another brand. She is absolutely loyal. However, and because of that loyalty, regardless of the price, she knows she’s going to, when she’s due to replace her Birkenstocks, for example, she’s going to buy those.

[00:10:03] Or here in Colorado, Chacos are another type of sandal that are quite popular that she likes. And I think of this story cause just recently she wanted to buy a new pair. She waited two whole months to buy that pair of shoes because she knew that brand was having an annual sale and they don’t do a lot of discounts as a brand.

[00:10:20] But they do them periodically and those consumers are trained, and we’ve seen these in the programs as well, these higher end brands that might limit their promotions, they see huge spikes when they run those promotions a few times a year because consumers are waiting for that. They’re waiting to feel like they got a deal.

[00:10:35] They saved a little bit of money, they’re OK paying for that luxury brand, but they’ll wait until you have that Q4 holiday shopping discount, or that Black Friday discount, which is when you see a lot of those spikes. So for me, a lot of the time, that’s my consumer one on one how’s, how are consumers actually behaving when it comes to their loyalty to a brand, what they’re willing to spend or what, even if it’s a luxury item.

[00:10:57] That’s always an interesting take from my end and a real life scenario and how those are utilized.

[00:11:03] Brook: Yeah, the sites, of course, can help you to get the regular sale information that you have out there to the wider world. In my view, actually the basic point is if you’re a retailer, you almost surely should be engaging with these kinds of sites. You can negotiate very advanced terms on all the platforms.

[00:11:18] And if you’re working with an agency like you, a great reason to work with an agency, they can help to guide you in setting up those program terms. And then what you want to do is you want to, feed the engine and provide as much content as possible, which unfortunately a lot of merchants don’t do. A lot of merchants have discounts visible on the site, on the landing page, and then they’re not pushed out to the affiliate channel, which I’ve always thought was very silly because that’s the best way to get somebody else to see it and they’re going to, they’re going to see it anyway if they land on the page.

[00:11:47] And so we hope that in the future we’ll have much greater activity and improved cooperation between these various kinds of affiliates and the merchants, because it’s very clear consumers love these kinds of offers consumers hunt for them. They’re not always going to go to the merchant page to begin with, and so you want to get that offer out there as the as a merchant.

[00:12:05] Jake: Speaking of and going down the next path here. When you’re managing an affiliate program that has matured, you probably have dozens, sometimes hundreds of affiliate partners, and they run the gambit from deal coupon, loyalty, sub networks, and you can run all the way into content partnerships technology partnerships.

[00:12:22] There’s all sorts of partners you can have in your affiliate program. So when brands do get to the point or they do have promotional sales coming up, maybe, quick flash sales, or they have more long term evergreen discounts for the affiliate channel, where I see it getting messy at times when they don’t have the proper tools in place is how to communicate that out properly to their affiliates.

[00:12:44] Publishers don’t always log into the networks that you’re operating in. They don’t always see the newsletters that you send out for an upcoming sale or a flash sale, and they might miss that. So we’ve had brands who have a flash sale coming up for the weekend. Not every affiliate’s gonna see that and have the opportunity to promote it for you if it’s not easily obtainable by that affiliate.

[00:13:02] So how have you… I guess this is a good chance to talk more about FMTC and the importance of creating kind of a unified system to make sure the deals that you want out there are out there and they’re easily accessible by affiliates. I think that’s a pretty key factor in seeing success with that strategy.

[00:13:17] Brook: Well I think you make a very good case for FMTC.

[00:13:20] Jake: They’re in every program we manage if any kind of discount or deal is used and there’s good reason for it.

[00:13:25] Brook: Yeah, we are actually also adding pulls the subscribers own data with their API credentials, which we’re very pleased with. But normally the way that it works is FMTC joins the program, we’re in over 20,000 merchant programs, about 22-23,000 right now, a surprisingly large number of them are inactive at any one time, which is also a value because we pull that information and provide it to the affiliates and we uh, taken all the deals that they have, we parse out that data, we structure it, we test it, we normalize it. We go to the landing page, we make sure that it works, we make sure the coupon code works, we make sure that the deal is valid, and then we make sure that the label makes sense. So we rewrite that and then we distribute it out to our subscribers.

[00:14:08] And what it boils down to is if you want, if you’re an affiliate and you want to present quality data especially structured data that you can filter and so forth to your users, you’re pretty much either using FMTC or you’re doing it yourself. Now you can do it yourself, but the costs are going to spiral.

[00:14:24] We have a full time dev team. We have dozens of people in our data processing department, in addition to our business development department. And so it’s a big engine. It’s a lot to keep going. And so if you do it yourself, it’s basically very inefficient. So that’s, what we do and why we are, it’s free for merchants to integrate.

[00:14:42] Typically we do have premium services we can upsell the merchants on, but the majority of our merchants just let us into the program and then we do all the rest and we get all their deals out there. And to your point about newsletters, yeah, each month, so in all those programs, we’re in, we’ll get somewhere between call it 15, 000 to maybe 18, 000 newsletters, sometimes fewer, maybe 13, 000.

[00:15:03] They come from all of these merchants. Some sends zero, sometimes multiple. If you’re a key partner, you can probably anticipate the affiliates going to read that newsletter from you the same way that they would respond to an email or a text that you might send, but for most merchants, that’s not going to be the case.

[00:15:16] It’s just too much information to process. So if there’s something in there that’s not in like another link, we’ll actually pull that out, and that goes into our system and that’s updated and retrieved via API. So oftentimes it goes straight to the publisher sites. That’s an often overlooked or lesser known service that we offer, but we try and just make sure that all this data in the affiliate channel is approved for affiliates, the affiliates should be seen, goes into our system and then it gets processed.

[00:15:40] It’s not just the deals, for example, if the agency JEBCommerce comes in as the new agency that gets updated in our system, if a program closes entirely, that goes into our system, it migrates, etc. So that’s also all structured data that we have in our directory and available via our APIs.

[00:15:56] Jake: And a lot of those benefits kind of highlight how you work in unison with publishers and help create efficiencies and even economical efficiencies on their behalf because of the kind of engine that you’re driving. From our perspective to representing brands, a lot of concerns that retailers and brands might have are that these codes go out.

[00:16:15] If they expire, they’re not being updated on site. Or do we have accurate codes that are working on every single affiliate site? And again, that kind of one to one outreach isn’t always efficient and probably never will be on ensuring that data is accurate, it’s approved, and it’s working.

[00:16:30] And that’s one thing that comes down to consumer experience. And so a big topic that brands or retailers will bring up is we want to make sure the experience the consumer has is not a negative one or puts the brand or retailer in a negative light because they go to these sites, there’s expired coupon data there that don’t, they don’t work, there’s expired deals that are outdated.

[00:16:50] And that’s the benefit of an engine like this for a brand, is it’s updated in real time via API on what’s available to the channel, what’s been approved, what’s working and what’s relevant now. And that, that comes down to having an effect on consumer experience and making sure that it remains positive.

[00:17:06] And I don’t know how much data you guys look into on that side, but I assume that’s another big thing that you guys push for and talk about.

[00:17:12] Brook: This is usually, I think a big problem in our space. Because if you have an affiliate and they post stolen codes or fake codes, like just stuff that they make up, literally sometimes it creates a really bad user experience. And I think it actually causes a lot of consumers not to go through the affiliate channel and frustrates the shopping experience they have.

[00:17:29] And again, sends them back to Amazon. Now, that sometimes is all on the merchants because they’re not updating stuff. But honestly, more often than not, it’s really on the side of the affiliates. And if you are dealing with this as a merchant you have a couple of good options but they are limited.

[00:17:43] One thing is it’s a good reason to engage with the affiliate because you have leveraging, you have a relationship and affiliates often will respond to takedown notices. A lot of people don’t realize that, but if you send you know, I’m not going to name the names of frequent offenders, but there are a lot of usual suspects there.

[00:17:58] If you say, hey, listen, take this code down, they will respond to that and take it down. In fact, some people have actually requested that we create a list of all those codes and then send them to select affiliates that are trusted to automatically remove them. That’s something we’re contemplating right now.

[00:18:13] And if you have feedback, you the listener or you, Jake, I would love to hear that. So if you don’t have the relationship, you’re going to have more difficulty working out those things. But the other thing that you can do is if you put out more actually good coupons and don’t just do one kind of lame evergreen coupon, put out a whole basket, and update it every month, have your coupon off of a super high order amount, you don’t normally do discounts, but you’ll do a discount on $250 or $500 or more. I’m always surprised that people don’t use it more because most customers won’t do that, but you’re going to have a sort of a proverbial whale. I’ve shopped that way myself. Sometimes free shipping stuff is still incredibly popular, believe it or not.

[00:18:53] Product discounts are always great. The what is now pricing, and you probably have a good SKUI count that you can put out there. Don’t forget you have new customer discounts. You can work with companies like ID.me and offer affinity discounts for military first responders, et cetera. And you can do gift with purchase offers.

[00:19:10] So there’s a, there’s a slew of things that you can do. And so do all those things. You’re, you have that stuff in your inventory, and priced it that way anyway, and then update that stuff frequently. We can take stuff into our systems every single day. But for goodness sakes, at least do it once a month.

[00:19:26] And so I’m always exhorting merchants to put out more frequent discounts because it’s going to get them more attention on these coupon sites. Their stuff’s going to float through come to the more attention to more consumers. They’re going to click through and make more purchases. Including past consumers who’ve forgotten about you, right?

[00:19:40] Jake: Yeah, it keeps it more relevant in their mind and consumers definitely want to find that deal or that discount. And again, I think as we go through this conversation, a takeaway and a takeaway that I’ve had for a long time is that it’s very simple to bucket these types of affiliates, and do a generalist bucket of, yeah, they can promote a coupon or throw up a deal on their site.

[00:20:00] It’s simple. It may drive value. It may not. In truth, there is a ton of complexity on how you leverage these types of affiliates and how you can benefit from identifying new consumers, new loyalty consumers, and how you can identify higher purchase baskets and how you can really play with identifying the types of consumers you want to go after.

[00:20:19] You talked about ID.me, for example. There’s a whole slew of ways that you can utilize this strategy to find new consumers or new consumer groups even. In demographic groups that you weren’t before targeting on a regular basis and start testing through that and seeing how that performs. I’ve always found there’s more complexity when you look at a truly mature, well managed program.

[00:20:38] The way that we’re utilizing discounts, promotions, free shipping offers, etc. It’s far more complex than just throwing up a code and seeing what sticks, so to speak.

[00:20:50] Brook: Yeah, you can do endless analysis on it and come up with all sorts of great solutions. And then, you can partner with the affiliates to really do fantastic promotions and reach these audiences. And there’s so many affiliates that you can do that with. And if you’re a small merchant, you can go to bigger or smaller affiliates to depend on different circumstances.

[00:21:09] There’s also the opportunity to do hybrid offers. And It’s totally fair to scrutinize what the value is that you’re getting from any individual partner from the channel as a whole. On that note, I would also add that you should apply similar scrutiny to any other ad buys that you’re doing in, for example, Meta in, for example, Google in the open web programmatic space.

[00:21:27] Because the things like, the duplication and multiple touch points in the click path, et cetera, that stuff does not get accounted for at all in those channels, unless you use other third party vendors. To de-dupe if, for example, Facebook and Google both claim the same sale, which certainly can’t happen.

[00:21:44] Jake: Yeah, I agree. Analytics are quite important. You also find with consumer behavior as they jump around as you mentioned, there’s a lot of stuff in that click stream and that click path, it brings me to the thought process of, again, this connotation of brands that might be concerned about discounting themselves or utilizing these types of partners.

[00:22:01] A lot of it comes down to not understanding the complexity and different ways you can strategically use these partners and how that can benefit your brand, but the irony I see is when there’s something buzz worthy in the industry, right? So we’re talking about influencers, that’s been a topic for a very long time, but it hit another wave of buzz over the last couple of years.

[00:22:21] You really can’t work with an influencer unless you give them a discount code. Many of them will not work with you unless they have an exclusive code to offer their audience. And brands will jump all over that, but you turn around and look at evergreen content and discounts or promotions that will help find new consumers with these types of affiliates in the coupon or deal site category, there’s far more scrutiny.

[00:22:42] And at least from our end, we try to open the minds of the brands that we work with that. Hey, you’re still discounting the brand. You’re doing that to drive new consumers. We can still do that with different types of affiliate partners. They don’t have to be influencers, which typically are more costly to work with.

[00:22:55] I just find that ironic in a lot of cases and how it’s perceived. I think a lot of the times they just probably got a bad experience because yeah, we’ve all been in a place, if you’ve worked at an agency or a network, probably where you’ve looked at a brand or audited a program, it was set to auto approve.

[00:23:12] And it’s got a whole mass of some of those bad apples and some of those partners that do not respond very well to outdated experience. The user experience is bad. They’ve got expired coupons on their site. They’re stealing coupons from other channels and putting it up there that they didn’t want to be part of the affiliate channel.

[00:23:31] And so they immediately have that connotation while all coupon and deal sites are bad when really their program just wasn’t properly managed and there was no oversight to use those partners or know which ones to work with. And I find a lot of that in my experience at least.

[00:23:45] Brook: You got to weed the garden. Again, a great reason to work with an agency.

[00:23:49] Jake: Yeah, it’s not a bad reason to, that’s for sure. Awesome. I appreciate you jumping in. As we close out, FMTC did a good job jumping into the reasons that is a useful tool and why it’s really paramount if you’re going to run an affiliate program effectively and utilize promotions, discounts, deals, etc.

[00:24:07] What do you guys have on the horizon? You guys have been around for a while. You talked and touched a little bit earlier about some new stuff it sounded like you had in beta. Is there anything you can share about what might be upcoming for publishers or brands that is, is exciting?

[00:24:19] Brook: Oh, yeah, we are very excited right now because we’ve just gone through a very long, arduous rebuild of our entire stack, which is finally out and we’re actually, so it’s V3 and we’re moving into V4, but we are deprecating our old V1, V2, which go back to all the way to 2007, if you can believe it so long overdue and…

[00:24:39] Jake: The OG version.

[00:24:40] Brook: The OG version, and foresee a future where there are way more deals that go out to way more partners with greater frequency and, where appropriate, much more customization. So you have the vanity code, the vanity code may or may not be an attribution code, which to say anytime it’s used that it attributes.

[00:24:56] So we want to really be a really good partner for the merchants to distribute those codes to the affiliates. A couple of things with the new version, we significantly enhanced our deal structuring. We’ve jumped from, I think, 33 deal types to 114 or so. So you can filter much better.

[00:25:12] We’ve added metadata processing. So if you have $5 off $50 or more for new customers, there’s a lot of very valuable data trapped in the label. It’s not broken out into fields. So we’ll tell you that currency is us dollar. The five relates to the $50. It could also be a percentage, but here it’s a, it’s a non Boolean, but it was a Boolean non percentage.

[00:25:30] And then it might be a stipulation, a new customer, military discount, et cetera. So we’ve had a process of human plus AI plus regular sort of like software coding to pull that data out. Interestingly, a lot more failure than you would have expected. But we’ve had, have made major strides with that, and we see that’s going to be a huge help for our quality score, for the filtering that our customers can do, and then also for negotiation.

[00:25:55] We are, as mentioned, pulling subscribers custom data in now. You could always add that manually, but it’s going to happen automatically through the API with their credentials. And then on the merchant side, we have new tools that we’re going to use to help to structure the data that they have in their affiliate program.

[00:26:10] And especially to deploy these deals from the merchant side, all the way out to the affiliates and then a lot of other good stuff, but that’s probably enough for now. So we have a lot that we’re rolling out in just coming months. Of course, Q4 is going to be clamped down time for us as it is for most people.

[00:26:26] But we think that, um, we’re really looking forward to the future. We also see a very bright future for affiliate with way more partners getting into the space, basically to monetize previously non-monetized links, and hopefully also to win dollars from other marketing channels.

[00:26:41] Jake: I agree with that sentiment. I think up is the direction that affiliate continues to head, especially as we evolve and like the FMTC across the board, whether we’re talking to a network or affiliate partners one constant in our space, at least in my opinion is consistent evolution. We’re always looking at better ways to utilize data to monetize data and that create better consumer experiences and pull from these other channels that can be more efficiently used within the affiliate space.

[00:27:10] And that never seems to stop. It seems to be this ongoing, chugging engine where we continue to see innovation on pushing boundaries on how we better monetize and capture both data and consumer dollars. And that’s exciting to see.

[00:27:26] Brook: Yes, indeed.

[00:27:28] Jake: So. For anybody listening, what’s the best way if they’re interested in contacting FMTC, how do they contact you?

[00:27:34] Brook: You can connect with me on LinkedIn. You’re also welcome to email me. It’s just brook@fmtc.co.

[00:27:38]

[00:27:41] Jake: Awesome. I do appreciate you jumping on today. I know you’ve been on this podcast in the past with Jamie. You and him go a ways back and I loved having you on now that I host this podcast. It’s been a lot of fun.

[00:27:52] Brook: It’s been great. Thank you.