Press Record: A Dialog on Marketing Strategies and Success with Matthew Ray Scott

[00:00:48] Jamie: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Profitable Performance Marketing Podcast. I am your host, Jamie Birch, and the founder of JEBCommerce, your award winning affiliate management agency. Today, we have a special guest from outside of the affiliate community, Matthew Ray Scott, a mentor of mine and good friend.

[00:01:07] Before we get to that discussion if you need help with your affiliate program, let us know it’s easy to do gethelp@JEBCommerce.com send us your question, your problem whatever you’re struggling with right now, whether that be cross channel cooperation between affiliates and other channels, new incremental customer acquisition, or frankly, just new affiliate recruitment.

[00:01:31] If you need any of those or any other problems with affiliate marketing and your affiliate program, or maybe you’re wondering if you should be engaged in this channel, just let us know, gethelp@JEBCommerce.com. We will respond to you right away. We respond to every one of those inquiries that come in and maybe your question will turn into a podcast episode. So gethelp@JEBCommerce.com.

[00:01:54] Now today’s guest is Matthew Ray Scott, and as he will say, he’s a Southern boy, so he’s got to use his middle name. Matthew and I met 13 years ago. I then engaged with Matthew’s firm to create the first affiliate management training program, My Affiliate Coach, that we use internally and that brands around the country have used for quite a long time to train their affiliate managers.

[00:02:17] So Matthew helped me develop that curriculum and all the video. Matthew is a phenomenal marketer and a phenomenal business leader, and entrepreneur. There is a ton of things that you can learn from this episode. So I’m going to go in a couple of things I want you to look for. Our conversation wasn’t about affiliate marketing, but the concepts that we discussed are incredibly relevant.

[00:02:43] If you’re an affiliate, if you’re a business leader, if you’re an affiliate manager. There’s a couple of things I want you to look for. So we talk about niches and the riches that are in the niches and why that’s the case. So if you’re an affiliate publisher and you’re thinking about what you need to do to take advantage of this ever changing global economy, this is a really good discussion for you.

[00:03:05] One thing to look at if you’re affiliate manager or an advertiser is the discussion on scorecards and 12 week year. And for everybody in the space, our discussion on video it’s kind of through the whole thing. If I titled this podcast, it would be titled “press record.” So we talk a lot about the use of video in all marketing.

[00:03:27] And so I really want you to focus on that. So Matthew is former army, done some pretty amazing things in the service, was in their psyops program. So he talks a lot about how that relates to marketing, and then he went into medtech, has built and sold multiple businesses, and is probably one of the smartest, most successful marketers that I’ve had the blessing to be in his tribe and be mentored by.

[00:03:55] So we talk a lot about marketing principles, leadership principles, how consumers make decisions and those types of things. If you’re wondering what can I, what can affiliate industry learn from someone not in it? It’s a ton. Definitely listen to this. At the end of the podcast, at the end of the episode I’m going to wrap a bunch of his learnings into affiliate marketing.

[00:04:17] So, definitely stick around to the end. So we’re going to bring it all back into affiliate marketing, but I’m going to get out of the way. You’re going to enjoy this conversation with Matthew Ray Scott.

[00:04:29] All right, Matthew Ray Scott, thank you so much for joining me. This feels like I don’t know. This is just a big moment. My friend, my mentor here on my podcast. I’m super excited. Welcome to the profitable performance podcast.

[00:04:46] Matthew: Jamie, I like your wife and your father more than you, but it’s an honor to be here.

[00:04:52] Jamie: I Know that’s true too.

[00:04:54] Matthew: It is! I feel like your dad you and I have been part of a tribe together and I don’t know why, I just have this feeling like your dad is hollering out the back door, get off the jungle gyms! And then fast forward to you and I recording those audio Podcast way back in the day. I think that was like circa 2010 to fast forward to now. So yeah, it’s a pleasure to be here.

[00:05:20] Jamie: One thing I learned from recording those videos and for our listeners who don’t know yeah. 13 years ago, we recorded I think the first affiliate coaching and training system. My affiliate coach, it’s still out there. But one of the big things I learned is, man, when you turn the video on, Jamie’s got a radio voice.

[00:05:41] And it’s not good. I remember you keep telling me, What are you doing? And I’m like, I’m talking. He goes, That’s not how you talk!

[00:05:49] Matthew: Yeah, I remember that. I think you were going through puberty at that time. So your voice was cracking. There were some ebbs and flows there, but not…

[00:05:57] Jamie: It’s the second adult puberty.

[00:05:59] Matthew: Oh yeah. Real quick sidebar. Those recordings are in my iCloud. Occasionally I’ll run across them. I’ll press play, but here’s the lesson learned: even back then, you and I were not afraid to press record and…

[00:06:16] and, and share value. And so I think this concept of how to become virtual in time shifted and democratize your knowledge and give away your best ideas. Dude, you and I were doing that 13 years ago.

[00:06:30] Jamie: Yeah, and that, that’s another thing I use often. So I use, cause I, I record a lot of content and I have a lot of people on the podcast. 99%, I think it’s like 99.2% of podcast guests. It’s their first ever recording that they’ve ever done. And so we always are talking about, Hey, that’s not your voice.

[00:06:51] Just talk like you. And then that, that concept of just hit record, share as much as you can. Don’t worry about it. The people want that value. They want that and it’s authentic. And also always film from the top.

[00:07:07] Matthew: I grew a beard since we started recording 13 years ago. So it makes my second and third chin look less fat. That’s my objective with the beard.

[00:07:17] Jamie: That’s awesome. We have so much to talk about to get talk about anything. I was so excited to have this because I know it’s going to be a great conversation. But for those who don’t know, and we can talk about how we work together and how we met, and I definitely want to do that for the listeners, but why don’t you give us your background?

[00:07:35] Cause it’s super interesting. You’ve done a lot. And and in the intro, I’ll line out for our listeners. One of the reasons I brought you on, I wanted to talk about was your businesses and how you started, how you sold and then the diving into niches. That’s what I really want to talk about, but tell us you were in the military and how did, what’d you do there?

[00:07:56] And then how did you get into what you do now?

[00:08:00] Matthew: Yeah. Thanks, Jamie. I went to the last all male military academy for college. And upon graduation, we had a military commitment. And so I went into the army, became an army officer, and, jumped out of planes for a living and was part of the 82nd airborne division. And then from there it was 1995.

[00:08:23] I had a chance for the military to pay for graduate school. So I was at that time a medical service core officer. So it was my first exposure to med tech medical technology and healthcare. Uncle Sam was good enough to pay. All expenses paid for graduate school. And I had an opportunity. The opportunity was 1994 to go into a new program called psychological warfare.

[00:08:50] And the only reason why I mentioned that is psychological warfare is. The study of how people make decisions. The news portrays it as, and it is true. We were propaganda development psychological warfare. The lesson learned from that time period in my life was the truth blow it up. So propaganda development, people from the outside looking in, looking at intelligence agencies, looking at what we did and, government meets military.

[00:09:21] We weren’t making stuff up, we were finding a truth and blowing it up. It gave me a foundation for focusing on how do people make decisions. I stopped jumping out of airplanes for a living. My wife and I who have known each other since, 6th grade. We’re, at this time, we’re blessed to our second child is about to come into this world.

[00:09:45] And and I was recruited in med tech and it was just a real blessing for me, Jamie, because in med tech, it’s a cross function of technology, patient care, physician interaction was a really good fit for me progressed quickly. In medtech becoming, working for some of the biggest companies in the world, becoming a VP of sales, ultimately, my corporate career culminated in me being a co developer of a biotech, which we sold to Medtronic for 16 times earnings.

[00:10:20] And so that was my first taste in how do you develop a product? How do you go public on the stock market? Which we knew nothing about and then how do you position yourself so that someone with more money than you goes, I’m going to pay you a lot of money to do that. Then fast forward to when you and I, interacted, I created a healthcare brand agency called Feed.

[00:10:44] It’s been exactly 14 years, Jamie. And…

[00:10:47] Jamie: Wow.

[00:10:49] Matthew: …in fourteen years time, we’ve grown to become, if not the largest certainly one of the largest healthcare brand agencies in the world that focuses on working with med tech companies to help them tell stories that differentiate them from the sea of lameness that they’re a part of.

[00:11:09] And then secondarily, we work with some of the leading brain surgeons, spine surgeons, orthopedic surgeons in the world. In fact, Jamie, just yesterday I was in our studio in San Diego filming the most influential spine surgeon in the world inside of our studio. So the last bit that I’ll catch you up on is.

[00:11:34] Four years ago and Jamie, you know how this works because you and I have done this before you find a buddy

[00:11:42] Jamie: Hmm.

[00:11:42] Matthew: you worked with he’s part of your tribe or she’s part of your tribe and then you go Let’s do something. Let’s create something four years ago I reached out to my friend Eric Anderson and I said there’s a real need in the market and that is that This was right when COVID hit, Jamie.

[00:12:00] Right before COVID hit, I could, as a PsyOps guy would do, I could predict that it was going to be more difficult on the front end to engage with decision makers. whAt I did is, I took this phone and I began creating personalized videos. 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minute. And the only reason why I did that was not for self promotion, because that video was only going to see the light of day from one person.

[00:12:27] So it’s not the public facing content that I’m creating. It’s me trying to show up on your radar screen, Jamie. So I would send that to you. So I turned to Eric and I said, it’s going to be more difficult than ever to engage with decision makers. Let’s create an online platform on how to do this. And gosh, Jamie, I was four years ago.

[00:12:51] We’ve got 21 people working with us, 21 people working with us, their coaches, their agencies, agency owners, and we’re working with entrepreneurs like you. We’re working with professional salespeople from get this Jamie MedTech HVAC plumbers. NFL, you name it, we’re doing it. That, that brings me to where we are today.

[00:13:18] Jamie: That there’s so much there. I want to talk about. One of the things we do here on the podcast is I like to hear people’s decision making process. I look back on my career and I see some of the decisions I made, and I think, who’s that guy? Cause I don’t know if I could do that again, that was really difficult.

[00:13:34] You’re leaving the army. How did you make a decision to go into med tech? Was that on the radar before? What was that process to go down this road that 20 some odd years later, you’re still, or more, you’re still there. Wow.

[00:13:50] Matthew: Because I woke up one day, and I didn’t want to go to Bosnia, I didn’t want to go to Afghanistan, I didn’t want to go back to Iraq. And it’s just the truth. What happened, my unit was deployed all over the world. We were the first to go in and I made a decision, Jamie. I didn’t turn my back on the army. I turned my heart towards my family and what I knew, cause I was gone.

[00:14:17] Jamie, let’s put this into perspective. Jordan, our oldest daughter. Who you remember, who’s now 30 years old with our first grandson, who’s now a year old. Jordan was three months old when I left for Iraq. Buddy, when I came back, she was walking.

[00:14:34] When I came back from Iraq, she was walking. And in fact, here’s that pivotal moment that you speak up, Jamie, here’s the moment that I decided I need to consider what the impact of this exciting life of adventure looks like. And we fly into a hangar. In Fort Benning, Georgia, and I’m like a lot of soldiers, we were one of the first to go into Iraq and one of the last to leave and I’m walking through a hangar, I walk by, I see my wife and I see one of my best buddies who happens to be in the army, and right then and there, I realized that I walked by a blonde haired, blue eyed little girl, and that was my daughter, and I didn’t recognize her.

[00:15:20] Jamie: Wow.

[00:15:21] Matthew: That was Jordan. And Jamie, for four months, upon my return, as one might imagine, you know this being a father, she looked at me like, “Who is this hillbilly that is claiming to be my father?”

[00:15:36] And,

[00:15:37] Jamie: she may still do that.

[00:15:38] Matthew: Yeah, she still does that for sure. But now it’s ah, dad, and that’s the moment that I decided to get out of the army. The moment that I decided to leave corporate America is when I got laid off. Jamie best career move ever. For those of you who were listening to me. If you get laid off, it’s not a pink slip.

[00:16:01] It’s a blank page. So I, myself, our entire sales and marketing team laid off. The company ultimately folded. But in a 24 hour window, Jamie, I had a decision to make. I symbolically it’s out of the movies. I had worked in a previous company that we sold to Medtronic. I knew everybody 28 year old HR consultant with two security guards come to my office and say, we need you to get, it was just ridiculous.

[00:16:36] A, one of my marketing guys turns to the security guards, says a few expletives. And says, get the heck out of here. And it was just crazy, meaning, none of us got laid off for doing anything wrong. It wasn’t for a lack of performance, it was just that the company was folding, etc, etc. But, right after that, Jamie, I drove to Torrey Pines Beach in San Diego, which is right across from our office.

[00:17:02] And I walked, and there was symbolically a lifeguard stand. Lifeguard stand number four. And Jamie, if anybody follows me on LinkedIn, they will see a succession of photos of me, beardless, skinnier, you name it at life guard station number four. And let me tell you, I’m walking along the beach, getting ready to tell my wife, “Hey, just want to let you know, got laid off.”

[00:17:29] No, no severance, no nothing. Cause the company was going south and, as I was walking along, I made the decision that I was going to create F. E. E. D. What is F. E. E. D. the agency today? We’ve got three locations around the country one in Europe.

[00:17:45] So what I realized at that moment was that I was going to create something that the safest place that I could be is in creating something for myself. Next pivot point, Jamie, I sucked. I made less money my first two years being an entrepreneur than I made as a lieutenant in the army.

[00:18:06] Jamie: Wow.

[00:18:06] Matthew: Months, every three months, I’d go to my wife and say, I don’t think this is working out. I think I need to, I can go get another VP job. We’ll be fine.

[00:18:17] And sweet Sandy would always say, ” give it three more months, give it three more months and we’ll see what happens.” Now, Jamie, we’re, she had a vested interest in this meaning life was very comfortable as a vice president of a med tech company, as you might imagine.

[00:18:32] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:18:33] Matthew: It’s very comfortable. She could have said, yeah, go get a real job for a living. This is crazy. She didn’t every three months. So at the two year mark, things started to happen for me. I was a N of one employee. Things started to grow and grow and grow. Lesson learned. I thought I was building a business those two years. God was building my character.

[00:18:59] Jamie: Hmm.

[00:18:59] Matthew: That’s what I learned.

[00:19:02] Jamie: That’s incredible. When I started this company, had quite the opposite. We quit. No severance. My wife went back to work. She was a very good and talented and successful professional in jewelry sales. And so she went back to work and we made a commitment for her to work for six months and six weeks.

[00:19:21] We had replaced the income that we had lost in 12. We had doubled it. And so that, that was, I, and from there, the next two years were so hard. So hard. I can’t imagine the financial addition to that, the financial strain as well. You brought up this topic, I was coaching these two young entrepreneurs and they said “what, what does this success boil down to? Why are you where you are?”

[00:19:49] I think they were expecting, ” I made really smart decisions consistently over time and I made one really big move and that’s what it was. I said, that’s not what it was.” I said, I’m stubborn as hell. And other people quit way before I did. And here I am 19 years into the business and I’m still here.

[00:20:09] And it’s because I’m still here because I’m still here. So talk to me about, cause I think a lot of these I call them kids now. I think I can, I’m almost 50 call them kids. They put a month into it, not working and they move on to another idea. Talk to me about how important it was to just keep going forward and where that came from for you?

[00:20:32] Matthew: Yeah. I would summarize it as I never lost faith that what I was doing was aligned with my purpose and that I never, ever, ever lost faith that it quote unquote, wasn’t going to work. So if you have that belief, here’s, what’s a dangerous, dangerous myth, the hashtag hustle culture is deceiving because.

[00:20:56] It’s based on the misconception of hey, if things aren’t working, you can just add more than 24 hours a day into the mix, hashtag hustle, hashtag perseverance. And it’s a lie. It’s a form of deception. So what I would say to people like me who are in a temporary season of discomfort is part of your success formula is if you believe in what you’re doing and work doesn’t feel like work, the law of average, you’re going to be successful.

[00:21:31] It’s like I was talking to one of our agency owners. In Texas yesterday, I was on a plane and I’m talking to him and he had given me a compliment and here’s how I responded. Jamie, thank you. But after 13 years, you would expect that I would be better. And what I was trying to give him encouragement was you’re on six months.

[00:21:56] I’m on 13 years. and I said, we both have a responsibility. My responsibility is to decrease the time it takes for you to acquire skill sets that took me 13 years to learn. It’s my responsibility to keep you out of the potholes. And then it’s your responsibility. And what’s coming next because you and I are students of this member, our worksheet, remember our 20 point system, remember you and I getting our 20 points.

[00:22:32] Jamie: Yep.

[00:22:32] Matthew: Jamie, I’m still doing that today. So what I taught him was is when you and I measure the wrong thing, we’re willing to fall for anything. So to this day, 13 years later, I wake up every morning. And I look at my revenue producing activities, which have a factor and I get my 20 points because my pea sized brain needs closure at the end of the day.

[00:23:00] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:23:01] Matthew: If I complete my 20 points, I’ve got checks deposited in the account. I’ve got verbal yeses. I’ve got new clients that, that accepted proposals. Then those are revenue producing activities, which I know are akin to planting seeds on good soil. And then I’m going to ruin this parable for any Christ followers who are listening to this.

[00:23:22] I’m going to ruin this by saying, it’s planting seeds on good soil, dot, dot, dot, and you’re going to collect an IOU. Now, when you collect that IOU, it could be two weeks, two months, two years later. I’ve seen it in 13 years, I’ve seen a seed that I planted in the form of a revenue producing activity unexpectedly delayed three months, six months, nine months.

[00:23:45] And now I at least have the vision and the wisdom to go, ah, I get it. I didn’t make money today. I made it six months ago when I did that revenue producing activity.

[00:24:00] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:24:01] That was one of the biggest things that you taught me. And we ported that right out to our sales team. And what I loved about that is that concept of you may have a 30 day, 60 day, 90 day period where you have no end events, you have no signed contracts.

[00:24:20] And in that. How do you stay motivated? How do you know you’re doing the right thing in that? And before that scorecard, you didn’t, you hoped at the end of the day, you hoped you moved the ball down the field, but you didn’t know. And then when we implemented that scorecard, it was like, Oh, I got my points.

[00:24:39] So they, one thing we added was if you were brought into non revenue producing activities, it actually. Reduced your points. So there was a factor and they were negative. So it would keep us from engaging in activities that weren’t getting us to our goals. And then we actually took that and went out to our affiliate managers.

[00:24:59] Cause, I think the scorecard can be for anybody…

[00:25:01] Matthew: Yeah, I have it for all aspects of my life, personal and professional. Now it’s one scorecard cause I no longer believe in creating silos of personal separate from professional is separate from health and wellbeing. I no longer believe that. I believe that those comprise a single day and, what the scorecard did for me, Jamie, years ago, and to this very day, I’ve got a scorecard right over here digitally it allowed me to gamify my version of success and significance, and that was helpful for me.

[00:25:42] Jamie: I love that. I don’t think we’re going to talk about significance today, but I want to talk to you about that at a later date and make a great podcast. But I do love that idea of gamification where you want to go. It’s worked really well for us now going back. As far as what makes it successful, belief in what you’re doing.

[00:26:02] And then what I heard from you with the scorecard is disciplined and consistency every single day for you. Was that kind of drilled into you? No pun intended in your military background, by the way, thank you very much for your service. What is that where it came from? Or did that discipline and that was that given to you there?

[00:26:22] Or did you always have that?

[00:26:24] Matthew: I think discipline, this is, this may be a bit contrarian. I think that discipline and hustle is overrated. Let me tell you why.

[00:26:33] Jamie: Okay.

[00:26:34] Matthew: Jamie, a plumber comes to your house, and that plumber fixes your problem, shows up on time, does it for a reasonable transference of wage, has a good attitude, and is technically proficient.

[00:26:49] Is that to be… celebrated because he’s an N of one or is he just being a busy professional and that’s the price you and I pay for being an ethical person who shows up, does the job on time. So here’s the point that I’m making and the way, and the re here’s the reason why I’m answering this in my world of med tech, we’ve got young guns who are at a barstool. I can always spot them. I’ll walk by a big trade show. They’re at the bar They speak the loudest and they’re talking about how they got their head caved in and how they had to embrace the suck And the problem with that storyline is, is it’s based on the premise of, if you just have enough discipline, if you just have a hard enough work ethic, that you’ll be successful.

[00:27:46] I don’t believe that anymore. I believe that it’s everyone’s responsibility to work on focus, work on purpose, and stop giving yourself away. A third place trophy stop doing it

[00:28:03] Jamie: Hmm.

[00:28:04] Matthew: And just realize that’s the price you pay for being over 21 not living in your mom and dad’s basement and refusing to work and playing video games That’s what big girls and big boys do.

[00:28:18] So how do I answer that? I don’t feel i’m special by being disciplined I’m disciplined by the way. But I don’t feel special. What I think is special is taking all of the distractions and all of hopes, to dos, et cetera, and putting it into a process that can work for anyone. That’s special. And I feel like over time, I’ve taken what has made me successful, and I can replicate it with anyone based on some basic principles.

[00:28:54] Jamie: As you’re telling me that I’m remembering football coach who wouldn’t, after we scored a touchdown, we were all freaking out. And he’s ” Hey, how about we act like we’ve been here before?”

[00:29:04] Matthew: Yes.

[00:29:05] Jamie: is what you’re supposed to do. And so is that core of the process, that scorecard? How do you know what to put in there?

[00:29:12] How do you know what to track? Does that go all the way back to your three year plan? How does that kind of work?

[00:29:19] Matthew: Yeah. The longest that you’ll ever hear me say a long term plan is 12 weeks.

[00:29:24] Jamie: Remember you taught me.

[00:29:25] Matthew: Remember me telling …

[00:29:26] Jamie: Talk to me about, yep.

[00:29:27] Matthew: So Jamie, you’ll remember

[00:29:28] this from you and I, but yeah, 12 week year. For the record, there’s a great. Book at the time that I was doing that, there wasn’t yet a gentleman who developed this 12 week year.

[00:29:42] Nowadays, just as a mental reference for your audience, there’s a great book. There’s a great system called the 12 week year. But back when you and I were doing it, we were thinking through that without that authorship. So here’s why 12 weeks is the way to go. It’s long enough. That it requires that you and I have a longterm perspective, but it’s short enough that you must have a sense of hustle. So the way that, the two businesses that, that I co develop and co own the way that we structure our business 12 weeks at a time, but there’s an there’s a gift to that. Check this out, Jamie. ” Hey, Jamie, I want you and I to have a plan. And then a year from now, we’ll check it out or hey jamie three three months from now.”

[00:30:33] So the human brain goes I can stand on top of my head for three months. Three months, surely I can do three months. So that’s how I go about it is, we are very strategically focused. We are very minded, but even from a planning standpoint, I have a strategy development background from my army days and certainly from my corporate days, but the ability to take 12 weeks as a finite time that the brain goes.

[00:31:04] Dude, you can do this. It’s only 12 weeks. You can do this. So you’re telling me there’s a chance, you can do this. And so that’s how at our two businesses that we structure it. And I’ll tell you what it’s done, Jamie. Now, some of the audience members could be going, yeah, but does that cause you to pivot and alter and not really focus towards an aligned goal?

[00:31:30] Do you pivot and change every 12 weeks? The answer is most often, no. But sometimes, yes, and boy, oh boy, oh boy, how grateful am I that I made a pivot based on an observation, and it saved us time and money by not falling into the trap of it’s January 1 and we’ve got our plan, and then in July, you’re like, I gotta complete the plan, even though I know that things have changed since January 1.

[00:32:02] That’s how we go about it.

[00:32:04] Jamie: And I wonder if that I look back at when we, when COVID started and we went, we threw our three year and our one year out. And stop doing it and we just went 30 days at a time because things were shifting so, so rapidly and I know you, your business grew quite a bit and did really well during that time.

[00:32:24] And so I wonder if that DNA already in you guys of not planning out for three years and being tied to it, but pivoting quickly allowed you to take advantage of a very shifting economy and world at that time.

[00:32:39] Matthew: Pain is a great teacher.

[00:32:41] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:32:41] Matthew: Pain is the ultimate teacher that captures our attention, not pleasure. And we know this psychologically. And as you might expect for me as a PsyOps guy, I’m thinking through I’m thinking through how to punch people in the amygdala to create a mental stop sign that develops no and trust.

[00:33:00] So that’s my byline. That’s business, by the way. And so speaking of pain as a teacher, in 2008, Jamie I had more than a million dollars invested in real estate. I thought I was the smartest dude on the block. You remember 2008 was a painful experience for real estate owners, etc. I lost a significant, significant amount of money.

[00:33:26] And here’s what happened for me in 2008. I hunkered down into a proverbial foxhole and I waited for the storm to pass. Now, COVID comes around. I learned my lesson. Jamie, I’ll share a story with you. Here’s the lesson learned. This is me, hunkered down, scared in a foxhole, Oh Lord, don’t let all my money go with this storm. And, for the record, it was going. COVID comes, and I remembered, the first time that I experienced combat as a soldier, I had a platoon sergeant. And my platoon sergeant turned to me right before, I was getting ready to experience this for the first time. And in this just crusty, old, non commissioned, smoker voice, he goes, LT, run to the sound of the gunfire.

[00:34:19] It’s the safest place you can be. And Jamie on that day, I did that and I don’t mean this in any heroic way. I don’t mean this in any way, but meaning I ran forward, forward, forward, and we had people who were pinned down in a foxhole because the combatant troops go, “Oh, there’s a foxhole. There’s people in there. I’ll shoot at that.”

[00:34:40] But for those of us who were running at different angles, they didn’t know we were coming. So fast forward COVID, I tripled down when COVID hit and I was doing five LinkedIn posts a day. When COVID hit, I was sending 50 DMS a day. When COVID hit, I spent more money on advertising rather than less money.

[00:35:07] And we, from COVID to now, Jamie, we’ve 3x’d increased our business. We’ve increased engagement. The lesson learned for me, and I should have known better, was, I was 20, I was 25 years old when that crusty NCO said, LT, run to the gunfire. It worked when I was 25. I was a knucklehead when I was 38.

[00:35:33] And I’m less of a knucklehead when COVID hit. And what I now know to be true is, and right now we are in a pause pivot point. If you’re listening to us, we’re at a pause point. Now I do not mean financial ignorance, but I do mean if you want to stand out and differentiate yourself, you must learn to earn attention.

[00:35:58] And right now we have people hiding out. In a foxhole, now’s the time to differentiate yourself and say, I have something to say, it may be a fit for you, and if so, here’s what you need to do next.

[00:36:16] Jamie: And you’ve been doing that since we first met, and that’s one of the things I want to talk about, like one thing I’ve seen, and it’s inspired me to do the same. We followed a very similar route in COVID of doubling down.

[00:36:30] Something you said to me during that time was a mantra of sorts of “give.” Give value to the point where you’re worried and it hurts, and your brain is saying, this is more paraphrased of I’m giving too much. They’re gonna be able to do what I do. Just give that value and don’t worry about it. So we didn’t quite do five a day, but we did for, I think the first 60 days of the lockdown is a video every day of this is what you should be doing, and really focused on serving.

[00:37:03] Of how can I just serve my potential clients in the community? And it definitely was a big reason why three years later, we’re still here, but we, you’ve been doing video… that was the one, I believe the way we met. Was I was running, or I was part of a group running a local marketing group.

[00:37:21] We wanted someone to come in and speak. That was Jim Cookrell who, if you’re listening to this podcast and in the affiliate industry, who he is Jim couldn’t make it. And recommended you and that time shifting, I believe, and video was your first virtual discussion with us. And then we flew you out and that because the video was so compelling in this time shifting concept that you then brought into our coaching.

[00:37:48] The, my affiliate coach thing was. So profound and you’ve been doing it ever since. So what did you see? What about that medium was so attractive to you and talk to me and our listeners about some of the keys for you in making… I, from the outside, looking in and being coached by you, I think I have a pretty good idea of all of those answers, but from your perspective, like how did all that happen? And I just asked you 19 questions in a very long run on sentence, but peel out which one you want to answer.

[00:38:24] Matthew: Yeah, here’s my singular response answer: neuroscience. So here’s the truth. Anybody who sells anything, you’re a neuroscientist. We’re all in sales. Just most people don’t know it yet. So that’s the fundamental truth. And Jamie, this from your entrepreneurial background, here’s what I’ve learned. 93 percent of the people I’m making that up. There’s no statistical reference. This is just my anecdotal evidence. 93 percent of people will starve rather than learn how to sell. They’ll starve.

[00:39:00] Jamie: Wow.

[00:39:01] Matthew: And so I made that observation of man, sales can be noble, sales can be an art and a science. So here’s why I use personalized video, self awareness for self promotion.

[00:39:14] Now, all of us, myself included, know what it’s like. When we’re being self promotional, we know what it sounds like. We know how schmaltzy we feel. We know what it feels like. So for me, my neuroscience background is motivated of ” how do I align what I do with the way that my clients make decisions and Jamie, how could I make this up?” Here they…

[00:39:45] Jamie: Right there on your desk.

[00:39:46] Matthew: Right there on my desk. Can you imagine, you know me, can you imagine how many times I’ve taken this beefy right arm and I’ve been on a video with somebody going, here you go, here’s the six P’s of how people make decisions. Learn these six P’s and then everything you say must align with one or all of these.

[00:40:07] You cannot speak outside of these six B’s…

[00:40:11] Jamie: For our listeners, he’s holding up a whiteboard that he keeps next to his desk. Yeah.

[00:40:16] Matthew: Everybody …who’s watching a screenshot this right now, you can ethically steal what took seven years of paid research to do right here, just ethically steal this. So what I just did there was I gave away. My best idea for free you had pointed on that. So why video?

[00:40:38] Why the concept of giving away your best ideas for free? Zig Ziggler god rest his soul He was ahead of the game young guns. Don’t know the impact of Zig Ziggler you and I are old enough to shove cassette tapes In a truck, drive all over Idaho, Arkansas, listening to a man with a silky smooth Mississippi voice.

[00:41:02] But Mr. Ziegler, who I met, and it was an honor to meet him, Mr. Ziegler said, if you help enough people get what they want, then you’ll get everything that you want. And so now fast forward when Mr. Ziegler was alive you know, personalized video wasn’t really a big thing. You had to go into a studio, you had to film it, et cetera.

[00:41:27] So why video Jamie reason? Number one video decreases the time that it takes for people to form an opinion. And no lie can trust us. Video does that virtual and at scale. Why is my answer neuroscience? Because I’m nerdy enough to study the neuroscience. There’s a pivotal study. I’ll make sure that you get it, Jamie.

[00:41:53] There’s a pivotal study by a neuroscientist and she studies, here’s the brain when it receives an email with personalized video, here’s the brain when it receives yet another lame. Fat paragraph, text based email. It’s a study. Electrodes hooked to the brain, control group, you name it. And so I did the research and everybody from the outside in thinks, yeah, it’s just a way for you to be self promotional. It’s what content creators do. And my…

[00:42:26] Answer is, is. Yeah, it’s a gimmick. Jamie, we’ve trained over 25,000 people at Virtual Sales Rx to do what I started doing four years ago. That’s a lot of people. Would you believe me if I told you that the introverts win.

[00:42:46] Jamie: Really.

[00:42:47] Matthew: The introverts win and you want to know why on video on personalized video, the introverts win? Because introverts have a high degree of self awareness that says, I don’t want to seem like I’m showing off.

[00:43:01] So what I’m going to do is I’m going to speak like a human being and I’m going to add value. And I’m going to slay unnecessary words. And then I’m going to press stop. And then I’m going to send it. What we as extroverts do, I got more to say, I’m on a roll, people like me, yadda yadda yadda, press stop, and then here’s what happens.

[00:43:25] Ah, that wasn’t good enough, I’ll do it again seven more times. Why video? Proven decreases the time that it takes for people to know I can trust you. The human brain can’t really tell the difference. When it gets a personalized video, You send me a per or I send you a personalized video, Jamie, you’ve never met me before because it’s intimate enough that you’re able to measure tonality, continence, personality value in 30 seconds, one minute or 90 seconds so that. And so when I do that, you’re able to have your defensive antennas up. This guy’s full of crap versus this is helpful. You’re able to do that quickly. Now we meet in person. Game on. You already feel me, there’s no putzing around of who are you? What do you do? What are the problems that you solve?

[00:44:22] Here’s what 93 percent of professional salespeople and entrepreneurials are thinking: misconception. I must be face to face in front of a prospect seal the deal. My answer is, how’s that working out for you? It’s never been more difficult to engage and gain access face to face with prospects. It’s never been more difficult.

[00:44:46] Jamie: Where are they?

[00:44:48] Matthew: Yeah, where are they?

[00:44:49] Jamie: Are they at the office? I have no idea.

[00:44:51] Matthew: Exactly. Personalized video is defined as this phone, this webcam that you and I are talking on, press record. It’s not going to a studio like my agency does for a living. It’s in the comfort of your office on the road from your car, screaming babies at Coeur d’Alene airport.

[00:45:11] That’s what we’re talking about and the reason why it works so well. With ums and ahs is because you act like a human, you speak like a human. So when you, what we teach, we teach at Virtual Sales Rx, a seven module course, and people can access it’s 97 bucks a month, not breaking anybody’s bank.

[00:45:35] People can access it at any time. It’s ongoing updates. Jamie, if we create a personalized video that breaks the bank, we upload it and go. Hey, here’s the exact script that we used. Here’s the exact, 92nd formula that we use that’s allowed us to, average a 74 percent engagement on this campaign and we just give that away.

[00:45:59] So that’s why we use personalized video, but 93%, no exaggeration, 93 percent fall into the trap of, ” yeah, I’m still gonna that’s not as important to me as getting face to face access. So I say to them…

[00:46:15] Jamie: Just remember the face to face thing is one of the first things we talked about where… you know, …from a cost savings and environmental savings perspective of I don’t need to travel. I can do everything now…

[00:46:28] Matthew: 100 percent.

[00:46:28] Jamie: …to do that. So I remember talking about that.

[00:46:31] Matthew: Here’s where the money’s at Jamie. The money is in you and I becoming face to face at scale. It’s where the money’s at…

[00:46:38] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:46:38] Matthew: …now, I travel a million miles a year. I’m on an airplane. I travel a million miles a year. The only reason why I say that is, is no one’s going to accuse me of not being face to face with clients.

[00:46:52] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:46:52] Matthew: Going back to the scorecard, what nobody knows is the reason why I can fly a million miles a year, and the reason why I can send, myself, personally, 25,000 plus personalized videos, is because What I do virtual at scale enables me to get paid when I get off the plane and shake hands. My, my personalized video is a digital handshake. So that when you meet me in person and we shake, you’ve already put money in my bank account. That’s how I view it.

[00:47:24] Jamie: That’s awesome. Thank you so much. Now, one topic I wanted to get to where we’re coming up onto our time together one thing you pushed me on and you’ve done successfully is they say there’s riches in niches. You’ve not only gone into marketing, but you’ve gone into medical and you’ve got into, I believe, plastic surgeons, but even a niche of those people as well.

[00:47:47] So how talk to me about niches, how important they are and how you made the decision to, to keep diving and getting more focused and what happened with your organization when you did that.

[00:47:59] Matthew: We’ve always been specialized in part because I have a specialty background in medical technology. And everyone that we hire, Jamie, just like you on the Philips side, everyone we hire there, they’re skilled in brain surgery meets orthopedics meets cardiac meets. You name it. That’s a specialty niche right there.

[00:48:27] So it’s a big specialty niche. So the whole key here is when you enter into a market that’s a billion dollar market, like I’m in, you can make a million dollars a year by working with left handed, one eyebrowed, ball headed, orthopedic spine surgeons. You can make a million dollars a year. But you got to be willing to say, I’m only going to work with left handed, one eyebrowed, ball headed spine surgeons.

[00:48:58] And the tendency is, I can be all things to all people. And so I’ve always been hyper focused on that. Very, very focused on that. We’ve never, ever, ever gone outside of the market of medtech. Because it’s a billion dollar market. Now, here’s the pivot point. What I have done, and we’ve created, as Jamie, we’ve created several million dollar a year businesses within that focus. So what I learned was go deep into that left handed, one eyebrow specialty focus. Go deep. Can you create videos for them? Can you create brand strategy for them? Can you do their digital marketing? Can you do their social media? Can you train the sales people who support those doctors? So it’s true. I’m in a narrow zip code, so to speak, but I’m knocking on every door.

[00:50:02] I’m the milk man. I’m the mailman. I’m the law enforcement. I’m all those things in that market because the key decision makers are the surgeons. Who operate on people, the medical technology companies that design the technology and the sales people who bring it to market. And so that’s who we serve.

[00:50:26] And yeah, I don’t ever foresee me… would our business model work across the board for other industries? Yes. So that’s why we brought on 21 people this year, to say, “take our model and go out to plumbers, go out to HVAC…”

[00:50:45] Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:46] Matthew: “…and replicate it.” But my core function is to be the strategist that focuses on what’s working. And then my co development responsibility is to say, why wouldn’t this work for HVAC, plumbers, electricians, lawyers.

[00:51:03] And that’s our focus area.

[00:51:06] Jamie: And it seems like you developed a system and a model that works very well in this niche. And then you’re not going to take it with that organization, but you started another that’s then going to, going …

[00:51:18] Matthew: We did. Jamie, you talk, you and I talked about this. I remember we, you and I talked about this not too long ago and it’s the concept of people and process. I have employees. You have employees. I love them. They’re worth every penny that they earn. I have a responsibility to them, comma, but what I now know to be true as an entrepreneur is: I focus on process before people. It’s not an either or it’s just that if you and I can develop a process, a system, a framework, a protocol that allows you and I to get work done at a profitable state versus the default mentality of, I got to go out and hire so many people.

[00:52:08] Again, I got no issues like you. I got no issues with bringing on somebody on board. What I’ve been focused on, I would say in the past four years is how do we dial in our profitable processes that support the people we have? Enhance the people that we have. And if, and when we bring on more people, they walk into an onboarding system that decreases the time that it takes for them to be profitable.

[00:52:37] Jamie: Yeah. That is something we’ve talked about quite a bit. It’s one thing we’ve worked on. It’s allowed new employees to come in and be effective and impactful for our clients very, very quickly. A lot of guests which is, it’s surprising to me. We have some pretty amazing people with amazing experience.

[00:52:56] They come on and they experience our process of this podcast. And it is very, there are, I think I’m looking at the process now. There are 26 steps from conception to going live that we have this and they, they see that and feel it. And it really, really works. Now, one thing you mentioned about about niches that I’ve seen in our industry to, wrap it into affiliate marketing is, Right now, there’s a lot of aggregation.

[00:53:25] There’s a lot of new entrance into the field. There’s a lot of a bit of chaos. And what I see a lot of people doing is trying to become everything to everyone. So I see a lot of affiliate publishers trying to be more than what their core audience was. And as everyone is shifting to be everything to everyone, there’s a lot of those partners are becoming nothing to everyone.

[00:53:50] Nothing to no one. We have to expand our reach. We have to grow our offering across out of this niche that we had. And to me, after this conversation, it feels like the, that’s a bit of Sitting in the foxhole mentality and we just got to wear it, we got to last this out instead of running towards the gunfire would be like, no, we are staying exactly in this niche and we are going further and deeper, with, within it and that’s what I’m seeing right now in our space on the publisher side is this model worked for them, I’m going to bring that in too. And now they’re going after that, I’m going to bring that in too, and they become this big thing with zero focus.

[00:54:32] Matthew: Yeah. Jamie, I would summarize where I’m going in my life. There’s something powerful when we ask ourselves, who are we becoming? And what I like about that question of who we are becoming is, is it goes right back to everything we’re talking about. One can answer that question and then we’re right back to the, Okay, to use the atomic habits quote, we cast a vote for the person that we’re becoming and then you and I go to 12 weeks because, that’s our focus is 12 weeks.

[00:55:06] And here’s how I would summarize who I’m becoming more of less. Now here’s what I’ve learned. My less may be more than most people, or not, but more of less. and so it’s just a way of rephrasing the riches are in the niches. But what I’m looking at under the Umbrella of more of less is at the age of 59, Jamie, I’m not looking for quote unquote to do less work, to have less responsibilities.

[00:55:39] I don’t look at it that way. I’m looking at it as I’m 59 years old. I better know what my gifts are, what my strengths are. I Better know that by now so that I can insert myself into a process that enables the other people that work for me or that we serve as our clients, that it magnifies that. And so that’s where I’m at in my life is I want more of less.

[00:56:13] Again, I don’t mean that in necessarily a straight up minimum, minimalism way or, or whatever. I just know what I don’t want, and…

[00:56:23] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:56:24] Matthew: …most people… I think, my father, before my father passed away, he gave me some really, really good advice.

[00:56:32] You’re an Idaho boy. And Jamie, I’m an Arkansas boy. And respectfully, you and I could live anywhere in the U. S. We could do that if we wanted to. But shortly before my father passed away, he said something to me. He said, Matthew, and my dad was an entrepreneur, he said, “the key is to start with your where. Where you want to live, where you want to live, work and play.” Which in, in isolation seems like, ah, that’s not big enough.

[00:57:00] And then his last comment to me was “start with where you want to live, work and play and your, what, and your, how will come trailing along.” And he was right. And then he said to me, “Matthew, you got a choice. You can be the Prince of San Diego, or you can be the King of Arkansas.” And I knew exactly what he meant.

[00:57:22] My dad was like, a dollar goes further in the Ozarks of Arkansas than it did when I was living bougie in Del Mar.

[00:57:31] Jamie: Yeah.

[00:57:32] Matthew: And my dad… my dad was the king of Arkansas. You go into a restaurant, my dad’s photos hanging on there. He’s like rolling up silverware for waitresses because they would give them free drinks.

[00:57:42] And none of his buddies were smart enough to do that. So I love that about my dad and what he taught me there.

[00:57:49] Jamie: That’s awesome. Matthew, we are over time. I have thoroughly enjoyed this as I do with every conversation. I was thinking about you and I when we were recording the My Affiliate Coach videos, often we would spend 30 solid minutes talking stupid and I would always have those conversations transcribed for the business part of that, but I don’t know if you remember us reading some of that conversation was…

[00:58:15] Matthew: If we posted that, it would be a viral sensation because if we would have had video back then. What people, here’s what people would have seen. Big wad of Copenhagen, notes in front of us. They would have looked at us like, who is Buford Pusser and his sidekick? But…

[00:58:34] Jamie: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly…

[00:58:36] Matthew: … we pressed record. We pressed record.

[00:58:39] Jamie: We did. And I think that may be the title of this podcast is press record of this episode, Matthew, it’s been fantastic. Thank you so much for investing in me as a leader and a marketer. You have taught me so much. I’m so excited to bring this to my listeners and to give them an hour of what I’ve had access to for 13 years or more.

[00:59:02] And there’s so much that marketers can learn from this and anyone working frankly, can learn from what we talked about today. So thank you for your service. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for your friendship. And, yeah. If so, I got lost here, but if someone wants to follow you, they want to connect with you, what you said resonated and they want to engage with your content and you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

[00:59:30] Matthew: Just simply go to LinkedIn. And because I’m a Southern boy from Arkansas, I have to use my middle name as part of my LinkedIn profile and just type in Matthew Ray Scott and say, I’m a buddy with Jamie. I listened to you and you know what a buddy of Jamie’s is a buddy of mine. And I would just close with this.

[00:59:52] Jamie, I’m grateful, grateful that I’m part of your tribe. You’re part of my tribe. I’m part of your tribe. I’m grateful.

[00:59:57] Jamie: Thank you. As am I enjoy the rest of your day. And we’ll include that LinkedIn link in the show notes as well. So everyone can easily find it. Thank you, Matthew.

[01:00:07] Matthew: Thank you.

[01:00:09] Jamie: Man. Oh man, that was a ton of great stuff. Matthew, thank you so much. And as I said in that recording, thank you for your friendship, your mentorship and just being in my tribe and now in our tribe.

[01:00:23] So what did we learn? Man, there’s so much here. I’m going to kind of bounce around everywhere, but I kind of want to talk about all these things.

[01:00:31] One is, something he learned in the PsyOps area of his service was to magnify the truth and isn’t that what marketing is? We’re magnifying the truth. Are you, in your messaging, in your information to the consumers? Are you magnifying the truth about that?

[01:00:49] So let’s talk about the scorecard. I’ll talk to you about how we use it. As affiliate managers, we use the scorecard. You basically outline what are the revenue producing activities as an affiliate manager that I have? What are those things that I can do things like: emailing a newsletter, creating a text link, uploading a promotion, emailing a recruitment list of affiliates, calling prospective affiliate partners, approving applications, creating landing pages for specific partners. There’s all these revenue producing activities, and then there’s the non revenue producing activities and that may be unimportant reporting and maybe meetings you’re having that are providing no value.

[01:01:30] And basically what you say is these revenue producing activities, they all are weighted. So approvals are one out of maybe one to five points but signing up a new publisher is a five. And then you score those based on how many times you did that. And at the end you subtract the non revenue producing and you get a score.

[01:01:51] Matthew goes on 20 points. We went on a little higher but you know, points of points. So you come up with that so that you know every month, every day, you’re getting further and further and closer and closer to your goal, further down the field, closer to your goal by focusing on those revenue producing activities and that really, as affiliate marketers, as publishers and advertisers we may from time to time get kind of in a funk of like, what should we be doing right now or projects that aren’t really focused on what the goal is. And that goal is always revenue, new customer acquisition, things like that. And so the scorecard keeps us there.

[01:02:30] And like I said in there, sometimes you have, you don’t have wins. You don’t have those events for a long time and the scorecard can keep you moving forward. I love how we talked about the 12 week year. So really been a focus since COVID of only focusing on planning for that period of time.

[01:02:49] Let’s see… the video. Why did he choose video? Why do we do a lot of video? Because video decreases the time for someone to know, like, and trust you. That’s a huge concept. Whether you’re an advertiser, whether you’re an affiliate manager, whether you’re a network, whether you are an affiliate publisher, that video can help you connect at scale with your ideal customer, your partners, in a way that scales, they can know, like, and trust you very quickly and it can, now that we’re a lot we’re remote, you definitely can stand out. There’s a lot of hybrid working situations, so that can be even more more important.

[01:03:29] The Zig Ziglar quote, if you help enough people get what they want, you’ll get what you want. That is what we do in affiliate marketing, right?

[01:03:37] We’re helping the consumer get what they want. Publishers are helping affiliate managers and advertisers get what they want. Networks are helping all of those get what they want, and we’re all helping the consumer get what they want. So the more we help get what other people want, the more that comes back to us and then that concept of we’re all in sales, but you may not know it and that number of 93 percent or so will starve before they realize you’re in sales. And in this industry, in the affiliate industry, that’s a hundred percent what we all are in. We are all in sales.

[01:04:11] Definitely a lot, a ton, of great concepts.

[01:04:15] Oh, the six P’s of Decision Making, we’ll include a link to that. If you’re watching the video, you can definitely take a screenshot. I did. And let me see if I can just grab that and I’ll go over that really, really quick on what those are. The six P’s of decision making are pain relief, perspective, problem solving, a product or service, process, or pricing and profit. Those are the drivers of why people make decisions, pain relief, perspective, problem solving, a product or service, process, pricing or profit. So much good stuff from one of the most seasoned and successful marketers that I’ve had the good fortune to know.

[01:04:55] So Matthew, thank you very much. If you want to follow Matthew, engage with him, just go over to LinkedIn and look up Matthew Ray Scott. You’ll be able to find him. We will include that link in the show notes as well. So Matthew, thank you again for another amazing hour, droppin’ knowledge on us, and a great conversation.

[01:05:14] Now if you found a lot of value in this episode, or you know someone specifically who needs to hear what we talked about today, send this episode along to them, promote it on your socials, Facebook, X, Twitter, LinkedIn, share this episode. Also subscribe to the episode as well. Maybe you’re seeing this from someone who has followed subscribe to the episode.

[01:05:38] And what really helps us get the word out is to leave us a review. A five star review whether you’re on Apple podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, leave us a five star review that really helped get exposure for this podcast. And we are still looking for guests for season three and starting to look at season four. Season four will start probably Q2 of next year.

[01:05:59] So, if you would like to be on the podcast, we’d love to hear from you. Or if you know, someone we should have on the podcast, just email us at gethelp@JEBCommerce.com, and we’ll get on that right away.

[01:06:11] So thank you so much for listening all the way up here until the end. I hope you found value and let me know, email me at gethelp@JEBCommerce.com. Let me know what your favorite episode was, or from this episode, what really spoke to you during our conversation.

[01:06:26] Anyway, love and very proud that we’re able to bring these types of discussions to our community. If you have an idea for another episode, let us know, you know where, and yeah, thank you for listening.

[01:06:37] Enjoy the rest of your day.